I saw [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FragileWhiteRedditor/comments/kyo25g/fwr_says_theres_no_such_thing_as_systemic_racism/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) Reddit post today and it sparked a few questions.
For context, I consider my self sort of knowledgeable of social justice issues, but I don’t understand this one that much.
The responding Redditor says that if you remove all the racists from a systemically racist system, the system still favors a certain ethnicity. I am in no way trying to argue this, and I don’t not think it’s true, I just don’t understand what systems are in place that are racist by design. I acknowledge that if it weren’t for my white privilege, I would probably know. I definitely think that the system is racist, but I always thought it was the people applying it unjustly, not the system itself.
Thanks
Edit: I understand this is a pretty common question and I should’ve better explained my question specifically as something like:
“I understand that many modern social systems are based on unjust, racist treatment of certain groups, be it slavery, Residential Schools, or otherwise. I understand that this has lasting impacts on our society, and these policies and practices continue to negatively impact minority communities to this day. It is evident to me that, for only one example, a racist judge, would apply harsher sentencing to a individual, due to their ethnicity.
My question specifically is, like the Redditor stated: How is it that, even once the racist individuals within the system are removed, the system still favors one ethnicity, and oppresses the other?”
Thanks to some very helpful, and precise replies I much better understand systemic racism as a whole, and my question is answered. Thanks to everyone who put in the time to explain.
In: Other
Let’s take schools as an example.
In a lot of places in the US, they’re funded at least partially by local property taxes. Which are based on local property values. For the longest time, discriminatory policies in lending, employment and similar meant that predominately black areas had housing that was generally worth much less than predominately white areas.
So predominately black schools got less money, which meant worse education outcomes, which meant worse employment results, which helped keep the local area less economically powerful and less desirable to live in… which meant less money for education and around the circle we go. Even if everybody involved stopped being racist immediately that wouldn’t fix the issue, because you’ve still got the results of all those racist policies feeding into the current system.
There are plenty of articles out there that explain it better, but I’ll try to summarize.
In the US, racism is so inherent that it is literally built into the very foundations of our society. Hundreds of years of enslaving Black and Indigenous people now means that they are at a severe disadvantage, even if they themselves are no longer enslaved.
Their ancestors were barred from educations, redlined out of neighborhoods, and relegated to low-paying jobs, which means that BIPOC people are way less likely to inherit any generational wealth. Traditionally Black and Indigenous communities are, for the aforementioned reasons, terribly under resourced, which means less access to healthcare and education and more exposure to health risks and poverty. This is only a little taste of the mass racial injustice in the US.
Notice how I didn’t mention anything about individual instances of discrimination. At this point, it’s not necessary for people to discriminate against BIPOC people, because the system discriminates enough already.
Systemic racism is racism that’s part of the governmental system.
It’s baked in.
This means that it’s part of the system and that the racism is systemic.
I know it’s complicated but if you go slow, you should be able to grasp what it means.
Let’s say there’s a job that doesn’t allow anyone with a criminal record to hold it. On the surface this sounds reasonable.
Meanwhile, totally separate from that the people who arrest people disproportionately arrest a certain group of people.
This leads this group having a disproportionately high rate of a criminal record, and thus a disproportionately lower chance of getting that job. Even though the policy itself doesn’t appear discriminatory at first glance.
I’ve often tried to find this out too. Every article I read seems to just wave vaguely in the direction of “systemic issues” but what I really want is for a POC to come out and say, “this exact racist thing happened which made my life worse in a totally measurable and non-vague way which can’t be explained away by personal perceptions.”
Australia had a “White Australia” policy until the 1970’s.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy)
I have an antique sidetable that has “Made with European Labour Only” stamped in the drawer.
Here’s an example. Imagine that because of the racism of previous generations, members of race A are on average much wealthier than members of race B. Due to the explicit preferences of employers and community members, people of race A tend to have higher paying jobs, and they own more (and more valuable) property, than people of race B.
Years go by. Then, after massive social upheaval in recognition of the injustice of this racial divide, it becomes widely accepted that it is wrong for employers to prefer not to hire someone who is of race B just because of their race. Likewise, it is unacceptable to prevent someone from buying a house in your neighborhood just because that person is of race B. Progress!
The problem is this. Since members of race B have previously been systematically prevented from these things, even after this social revolution they don’t have access to the wealth or the connections of a family who previously had access to these things. Members of race A, on average, still have more wealth, a higher education level, and tend to network with people who have more power. Insofar as these factors play into an individual’s success or failure in achieving their goals, members of race A will still tend to do far better than members of race B—regardless of the merit or talent of the individuals involved.
Moreover, nobody needs to be explicitly racist in order for this racial disparity to be upheld in future generations. A member of race A goes to Harvard (where his parents went). An equally talented member of race B goes to a state school (all he can afford). Both excel and get a high GPA. Both apply for the same jobs. The hiring committee ignores their races…and promptly hires the guy who went to Harvard over the guy who went to State. So the disparity is recreated for another generation. But nobody had to think about race at all in order to generate this outcome.
Systematic racism is where the laws/rules appear to be race neutral, but in practice, the laws result in different treatment because of race.
E.g., possession of crack cocaine had a harsher sentence than possession of cocaine. The two laws say nothing about race. Thus, the laws appear to be racially neutral.
In general, black people use crack while white people use cocaine, so in fact the laws are not racially neutral. More black people face harsher sentences.
Well for the us police system in particular people argue that there is systemic racism for many reasons including that a) our country was established on the basis that only white straight Christian men have rights in this country and b) the police system was originally started not to “protect and serve” the community from all crime but to protect and serve people whose slaves had runaway. Given those two parameters (and many others not mentioned here) people state that since these systems were built with racial ideologies in mind over the years even though the public image and purpose of these services has supposedly changed, there has been a lasting, pervasive method of hiring and training in a way that upholds these ideologies in a way that purposely but under the radar targets people of color.
Not sure how it works in other counties but here in the states that’s the heart of it.
Does that make more sense?
I think an example is of the police patrol in areas mostly Black people live (due to generational poverty). A cycle of more police catching more crime has built a situation where police easily circle the hood and catch weed charges while the suburbs and weathly neighborhoods do their pill transactions in peace. For example.
While it may seem Black people dont have it so bad right now, it’s only been a couple generations of even half-ass equal. And a whole lot of white people, their descendents, and their communities benefitted from being able to use Black work as loan collateral in building our system.
Lastly, police were formed to be slave catchers. Once slavery ‘ended,’ work still needed to be done so we just started calling slaves prisoners. Mass incarceration/justice is very big business, and prison labor/court/treatment industry is huge. To keep bodies flowing, it starts with child welfare then juvie then jail and prision. That whole system has a higher percentage of Black people than it should.
Anyway, that’s all I got off the top of my head.
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